Patrick Armstrong
Hey, everyone! Welcome to Conversation Piece with Patrick Armstrong. I am the titular Patrick and this is the show where my guests and I discuss what piece of the conversation we aren't talking about, but should be. Special shout out to all of my returning listeners and a high five and hello to everyone joining us for the very first time. Thank you very much.
The month of May is Asian Pacific American Heritage Month, or APAHM, and is meant to celebrate and reflect on the history and peoples that make up our beautiful diaspora. As part of that reflection, this month I'll be sharing nine conversations with my friends and folks I greatly admire in the community as we discuss those missing pieces of the Asian American conversation: what we know, what we might not know, and what we can do about it. These are the APAHM conversations.
My guest today is a mission-driven entrepreneur, investor, media strategist and speaker. She's the founder and CEO of Trailblazers, a media platform that elevates the stories of leading South Asians and convenes them. She also holds a B.A. in economics from Harvard University and is originally from Atlanta, Georgia. It is an honor and my privilege to welcome Simi Shah to the show. Simi, how are you doing?
Simi Shah
Patrick! Thanks so much for having me here and for that kind introduction. It's so wonderful to reconnect with you after meeting you last at the podcast event and just excited to jump in today.
Patrick Armstrong
Absolutely. Before we get started, I just wanted to shout you out and hype you up a little bit. You've been doing some incredible things recently with Trailblazers and I just wanted to say that it is a big inspiration for me, especially as I lean into the show, to see you succeeding in such amazing ways.
So I just want to say thank you for doing everything that you do for uplifting the South Asian community and for giving us all new access and new opportunities and avenues to learn. So I appreciate that.
Simi Shah
I appreciate that.
Patrick Armstrong
So I know I read off a little bit about your bio, but for those listeners who may not know who you are, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself?
Simi Shah
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think I've had a bit of more of a winding journey than most. But as you said, I am originally from the Atlanta area. I grew up in a family of very entrepreneurial South Asian immigrants. And so always had early inclinations towards the world of business and entrepreneurship and just community and culture.
After graduating from Harvard, I actually initially started my career in finance and then very quickly found myself having this craving for more creative pursuits and so transitioned to the world of media. And long story short, today I work as a media strategist, I consult for a variety of largely actually P.O.C. and female founded brands, startups, individuals and the like, helping them develop content strategy and media strategies for their respective brands and profiles. I also dabble in my family's business, so we work in the real estate and banking spaces. So do a little bit of work there.
And then, as you said, I run my own platform called South Asian Trailblazers, where I run a podcast publication and content platform that's dedicated to amplifying the voices of South Asian leaders. But over the past few years, we've also started delving a little bit deeper into the community aspect. So we host live events, including mixers and dinners and the like, to bring our community together around this shared mission.
And so that's a little bit about me and what I’m up to these days. [laughs]
Patrick Armstrong
I love it. I’ve got to ask, you do so much. How do you find the time to balance all of these things?
Simi Shah
I would first say, I don't think I do. [laughs] I am perpetually behind on my inbox. And for anyone out there listening who I haven't responded to, I'm sorry. No, I think a lot of it is just like that priority stock continues to shift right?
Patrick Armstrong
Sure.
Simi Shah
Where there's a lot going on for my clients. You know, we're hitting the end of a quarter and something big is hitting and I'm really heads down on that.
And then there's other weeks where Trailblazers, we have a live event or a big podcast coming up. And so I try to be mindful of how I triage my work. I'm also very lucky to work with both my family and friends and a team of individuals across all these projects to make it possible. But I think the real secret, and I tell a lot of people this, is I come from a family of people who have, I don't think, any capability of just doing one thing at a time. [laughs]
Like, I think you get bored. And so it's like a survival mechanism. It's like, “Oh, this thing is getting a little boring. Let me shift my brain to this and that.” It helps you reset and then go back to that original thing. And so I think it's just a big part of who I am and frankly, genetics.
Patrick Armstrong
I absolutely love it. It's like you can't, there's just an hour of time and you're like, “Wait a second, why am I not doing something right now?” And it's like, “What can I do?” And you do amazing things. So, very excited and excited to be able to have this conversation with you. Let's jump right into it. I said at the top, this series is specifically about addressing the missing pieces or parts of the conversation about Asian America specifically.
And so I want to ask you, what part or piece of the conversation do you think is missing or we're not talking about right now, but should be?
Simi Shah
Yeah, You know, I think it's really interesting because the piece that I found missing, and I thought about this as you started speaking to me about this conversation, is data. And I know that sounds really boring, but across a lot of the roles I've worked in, I've worked with a lot of Asian American leaders and had a lot of these conversations.
And even with Trailblazers, when elections are coming up or it's APA Heritage Month where, I'm a numbers person, I'm like, “Let's put pen to paper and show people where our community is succeeding.” Where we're not, like, what do those numbers look like?” And every time we end up back at the same five articles and I'm like, it's been two years since we last had this conversation about, for example, elections, right?
How is there no new data? And so interestingly, I don't think the onus is only upon our community, I think it's obviously a broader question and also addressing the fact that on most surveys that we go to, Asian American is still one box despite the fact that it encompasses upwards of 50 communities. But, I think that's a conversation that we need to start having, start advocating for within our organizations that we're in, whether, you know, research groups, the like, of, how do we do more research on the issues affecting our community where we live, earning potential, leadership.
And part of why this has also been top of mind is I've been talking to a dear friend, Harish Hemmige at BCG, and he's been really digging into this from the leadership perspective. And I’ll let him reveal what he has coming up, but what he's dug into was just phenomenal. And I'm like, more people need to be doing this because if we had this data, there's so much more we could do to push our community in the right direction because right now it's a little bit of stick your finger in the air and figure out what needs to be done. [laughs]
And it's nice and I'm so proud of us for doing that. But how awesome would it be if the progress we made didn't just rely on anecdotal evidence.
Patrick Armstrong
100%. And I think you bring up such a great point about that box being just Asian or Asian American, and then that's it. Listeners of the show and listeners of this particular series will know that I've referenced this report a lot, The National Asian Pacific American Women's Forum's annual pay or wage report and how they've got that disaggregated and continue to desegregate that and the importance of that happening so we can have a fuller picture of what it is to be Asian, not just this really stereotypical East Asian mindset that a lot of people have.
And I think that it's also interesting to think about something that you said, specifically regarding us falling back to the same five articles, the same five organizations sharing data. You said we need to advocate in our own organizations. How do we internally start to address this data point, like your friend Harish is obviously doing that work. There's obviously people behind the scenes doing it, but for maybe the everyday person who isn't necessarily set in a position of leadership or whatever the case might be, how do we go about finding these newer, more nuanced data points?
Simi Shah
I think that's a great question. I wish I had this sort of all encompassing answer because if I did, I would have gone out and done it. But I think like everything, it starts in a very grassroots and simplistic way. If you work in a company and they regularly do employee surveys or collect sort of employee data – a lot of massive tech companies and big corporates do this – I think pushing for that data to encompass the AAPI community, encouraging them to break it down further than they potentially are, because they often do it for other minority communities. It just hasn't been a priority among ours.
And then seeing what avenues there are to even make that data publicly available, right? And again, I recognize that's no small feat, but I think even just starting to have some of those conversations. With a lot of my friends, they work their day jobs, but they're passionate about advocacy or something on the side. And I think it's even just having those conversations within the nieces you occupy. Part of why I've been having this conversation with Harish is a lot of our podcast and platform at Trailblazers is very much focused on South Asian leadership. And so there was a natural synergy there of me talking to him about the research and studies he was doing into Asian American leadership.
And so whatever your niche may be, I think engaging with people who might have those interests and, you know, he's at BCG, one of the biggest consulting firms in the world. They have the resources to do that. He took the onus upon himself to do that, which I think is phenomenal. But I think looking for those small opportunities of who has these shared interests, who has the resources, who has the ability, and I think if we can bring those voices together, there's a real opportunity there.
I also think it's – I was reading a study, I think it's probably two years ago, about diversity in media. And I think it was done in partnership with Nielsen or someone and I was just reading like who had put the study together. And usually they list their emails and we sent them a note and we were like, “This is really great. Thank you so much for providing this level of detail.” And I think if you find a study where it's not broken out or you have feedback, just take that 5 minutes to send that email, because I think more often than not, people are willing to listen, it's just like we're the ones hyper aware of this issue because every time I try to go and look at data, I can't find anything, right?
Some people don't know that. They're applying a standard format to a standard survey and data report that they've been putting out for the last two decades. That's their job. And if you go back and say, “Hey, it would be really amazing if you disaggregated this in this way,” they might consider it. So that's, again, it's not an overall panacea, but I think there are sort of small steps we might be able to take in our respective communities. And again, I think the grassroots, the anecdotal, you know, the hands on the ground work is there.
But I just feel like if we had an approach that was more data driven, there's so much more we could do.
Patrick Armstrong
The thing I took away from that, specifically, is like it kind of boils down to advocating for yourself. In those things, it’s just asking. Thinking about just doing solopreneur stuff, a lot of it boils down to being willing to make the ask. You’ve got to know how to do it. You can do certain things, but it's really about being aware that you can ask that.
And if you get a no, I guess there are other things that you can do, but at least broaching the subject first is probably what we're going to have to do, because a lot of times people don't come to us and ask us what we want to know or what we need to see. So I like that it can kind of boil down to making it simple, but it's not. I mean, it's not simple in the fact that we there's more things to be done. But if we want to see that, we do have to go out and get it sometimes.
In the multiple areas that you find yourself operating in, navigating in, have you seen changes from a data perspective, yourself? In real estate? Anything that you've seen that has changed from a data perspective, from your perspective?
Simi Shah
It's interesting that you ask that. So I went to a hotel conference recently and, for those who don't know, I mean like Asian Americans, specifically South Asians own pretty much one in every two hotels in the United States. I don't know what the global number is. As a result of that, the franchisors who maintain a lot of power in the industry and just sort of the titans of the industry have to do a lot to cater to our community.
It's pretty remarkable when you see it. I mean, the way, you know, down to very small things. And so I think as a product of just the footprint we have there, they've made a lot of strides in the past couple of decades to be considerate of our community, incorporate that data in there, have those conversations. I can't point to any specific data source, but I have really seen that my father has been in this industry for 30, 40 years.
I mean, when he first came here, people wouldn't give him a loan because of the color of his skin. And now it's not even a question because our community has such a foothold in this space, which I think just speaks to the genuine evolution.
So I hate to say it, but wallet power does make a difference. Being integrated into the economic fabric of this country in such a profound way – and this is one industry I'm talking about, right? We traverse so many – I think it makes a difference and it makes people say, “Oh, shoot, Like this is a group that we need to think more critically about and how we cater to that and how we tailor things to them.”
So that is one example. And I think to the point you were making earlier, I think sometimes it is about asking and I get that in 2023 there are some things that we just come to expect and it's like, “Guys, how have we not figured this out?” [laughs] But I think the reality is people don't know what they don't know, despite all the progress we've made, especially with 2020 and the murder of George Floyd and this being a bigger part of even the corporate conversation, people are still just starting to learn.
And the degree to which you can go and sort of, you know, provide some insight, have that conversation to the point you're comfortable. Right? I think it's well worth it because nine times out of ten, I've actually found people to be quite receptive. It's just not something that crossed their mind.
Patrick Armstrong
Right. You don't know what you don't know. And it's like, I think about it like hidden histories. I just finished reading Asian American Histories by Catherine Cenezia Choi, which I loved. It's an incredible book, and she talks a lot about that. The hidden histories of Asian America and like the almost nonlinear paths that we've taken to be here. And if you weren't part of those communities or you didn't pick up that book, you'd never know. I don't think. You’d never have any idea about any of this. And so it is important just to be able to have that.
It makes me think about the ways that we can work together as different sects of the Asian diaspora, the Asian American diaspora, to find our ways to these solutions, specifically from a data perspective. What do you think are the best ways that we could start to collaborate – maybe not the best ways or the solutions, but even just those starting points – how do we come together as different communities of the same larger umbrella to really drive home these points of data?
Simi Shah
Yeah, I mean, I think your answer was in the question around coming together. I mean AAPI and all the other letters that they've added in the past number of years, I don't think that bucket is changing anytime soon, right? I would love to see a world in which we start to desegregate that more often, but I personally think we're still that far out from that.
But I think the point is like that's a strength. That we have this ability, we shouldn't just view that as a negative. We have an ability to bring all the many communities together to advocate for change, right? And so I think it's like if you and me came together, you know, or you, me and Jerry came together and we're like, we're going to go approach this big consulting company and say, “For AAPI Heritage Month,” we should do this by the way, [laughs] “can you guys come out with a study on X, Y, Z? And we’ll support it, promote it, whatever it is, we can work with you guys to get sponsors,” whatever it is.
And I think it really is that coming together because when you have represented the vast diversity of communities we have, and I'm not just speaking on cultural boundaries, like when you have women, LGBTQ, there's so many intersections, I think it's a lot harder for the person on the other side of the table to say, “No, I don't think there's any interest here.”
Patrick Armstrong
Exactly.
Simi Shah
And so I think it is about having those conversations. And look, at least the space that people like you and I exist in, it's very content driven. It's much more of a creative aspect to it. You know, a lot of the work we do in data numbers is supplemental to the existing content work we do. And so with the million things that we have going on, I understand it's not always easy to make things like that a priority, right? Or even think about. Sometimes it doesn’t even cross your radar because it's not core to what you're doing.
But I think there is going to come a point, and I've felt this again in the election conversation, of like, I just don't even know where our community sits, how we vote, how we don't. And there was a great partnership between the Juggernaut and FiveThirtyEight that day back in the 2020 election where they put this data out and I'm like, “Can we make this annual?” [laughs]
It's incredible. And so I think it's going to become more important over time because as with any community, I mean, how do you know where to focus your efforts if you don't have any information?
Patrick Armstrong
Right. So you said that you feel like we're pretty far, or maybe not pretty far, but still far out from getting to that point of consistent disaggregated data. How far do you think that is? How far away do you think we are from that?
Simi Shah
Oh, gosh, I don't know that I could put a number on it. And some groups have already started to do this. Like sometimes I'm taking a survey and there is a breakout for Indian American and sometimes it'll be South Asian. It'll go down to the subcontinent level, right? And in other places it's like, there's seven letters and I'm like, I probably fall in one of them. [laughs]
“Let me check the hot box.” So I don't know. My hunch is, I think we've already started to become a way bigger part of the conversation just in the last couple of years. And it's hard for me to exactly tell, again, because I'm not speaking from a data point, I'm speaking anecdotally. But I think people are going to start to recognize, you know, I think if you take it again, the simplest case of the political level, like if I'm a politician running for office and I want to understand which constituencies I need to mobilize, I probably need to understand those constituencies at a pretty granular level. And I'm not going to do that if the data is just AAPI, right?
So I think it's going to become more important. And I think again, for better or worse, when it affects people's bottom line, when it affects politics, when it affects economic growth and such, people are just more fundamentally motivated. And so I can't put a timeline on it. But I think as we grow with respect to that as a community, it's going to become more top of mind for a lot of the people who have the power to change.
Patrick Armstrong
Absolutely. And a lot of those people obviously sit outside of our community. And I think a lot of this conversation, while we've been talking about us as an Asian American diaspora, going where we find ourselves in these spaces and these corporate entities or whatever the case might be, and we have to go and we know that we have to work within the system to try and find that change.
And obviously the people in executive leadership are going to be the ones that can help affect that change. And so we've talked a lot about them having to be willing to listen, us going in and engaging with them. What other ways can folks outside of our community address this lack of data, outside of just those things that we've already discussed?
Simi Shah
That's a great question. I mean, I think if you're here and you're listening, you're already taking the first step, right? I think it goes back to you don't know what you don't know. And this is a conversation I have a lot in building South Asian Trailblazers. And I'm sure you can relate with your Korean Adoptee podcast and the work that you're doing in that space, that people think that it has this label. And so it must only be for that person, like South Asian Trailblazers can only be for South Asians.
No, I tell people all the time, “We're interviewing leaders across industries. Us talking about their identity is a core part of the conversation, but it's not the only part of the conversation.” Everyone stands to learn so much by hearing about this person's journey.
So, just a couple weeks ago, I was talking to someone who works in the cyber security space and I was like, “We have this amazing podcast episode with Rinki Sethi, who was previously the Chief Information Security Officer at Twitter. You should go listen, you’re woman in cyber security! And she wasn't South Asian, but I think that's the point is don't shy away because like you see the title and you're like, “Oh, this isn't for me.” I mean, and take that opportunity to learn and engage and you might surprise yourself and how relatable it actually is and what new things you learn about these communities that you want to try and engage more with.
I think another prime example, this is when I used to work in finance, we would have a women's forum because obviously finance is notoriously male dominated, particularly where I was working in private equity. We'd have a women's forum where we'd invite women in college, come spend a day with us, learn about what it means to work in private equity. It was beautifully done and such a great offer.
But the people who would plan it were women. All the people who had attended from the firm were also women. And I was like, “This isn't addressing the core issue here, right? Like, we want the men engaged, too, right?” We want them to be involved in the planning because that gives them a vested stake in it. We want them to understand what it means to bring these women and make them feel welcome.
And I remember speaking to some of the guys about it like, “Oh, are you guys coming to the networking hour with the women we have upstairs?” And they were like, “Oh, well, that's not for us.” And I was like, “Okay…”, so the onus is on us to make sure they understand that it is for them, like they are welcome, right? And it's also on them.
So again, I think there's push and pull here, right? They were like, “We’re overstepping iIf we do that.” And I was like, “No, you're not overstepping. It would be great if you came to show me, demonstrate your solidarity and support for this initiative, right?” And so I think that's the point, is some of it's on us to bring people into that conversation and say, “Hey, this is for you.”
And the other part of it is for the person to say, “Okay, I thought it wasn't for me, but it could be for me and let me at least go check it out and support.” And so that's really what I view as a core piece of, not just on the data point, but of working together to bring about and effect change in any advocacy work that we're trying to do across our communities.
Patrick Armstrong
I absolutely love that because I can, I as you were describing that, I was thinking about all the times that I saw a label of something like an event or whatever, and I was like, “Oh, that's not for me. Like, I shouldn't go to that.” And now I'm thinking like, “Man, I should have really went to this place.” It's really an opportunity to learn.
And that's one of the reasons I really love Trailblazers, specifically, because it feels very accessible and it feels like you're doing that, you're providing the opportunity, you're letting people know, “Hey, this is about South Asian leaders, but it's not exclusively for the South Asian community. It’s for everyone.” And also it's there for people to then take the step to start listening, to start engaging, to start immersing themselves, to have to develop that better understanding.
I think that's something I've been talking about a lot lately, is getting out of the echo chamber of our own communities because I think that, again, it's like I hadn’t thought about from the label perspective, but like for me for a long time it was like all adoptee focused then it was all Asian Adoptee. And those are great. Those conversations are necessary. We need to have conversations available to listen to so we can see similar stories, similar humanity in other people in our community.
And we also have to be having those conversations outside of that community. As you said, the people in positions of privilege and power probably don't identify in the same way as myself. However, we can have those conversations with them and if we’re not, we're never going to be able to find our way to the change that we want to see because we're not at least taking that next step.
And again, it's on the other side to come to the table and be willing to listen. But also we have to be willing to get out of our comfort zone, of our own community conversation, and go outside of that, find ways to build solidarity, to build that community in order to reach whatever the goal is that we want to reach, which I think is, just surviving it. [laughs]
Simi Shah
Thriving! Thriving is the goal. Thriving.
Patrick Armstrong
You’re right. Thriving is the goal.
Simi Shah
I'll add to that quickly, Patrick, I do this. I'm guilty of this, too. I look at things and I'm like, “That's not for me.” And I also think as people that have built things specifically for our communities, it's really hard to strike that balance. Candidly I’ll share an example:
Initially we started calling ourselves Trailblazers and people were like, “I think it would really help your branding if you call it South Asian Trailblazers so people know.” And I try to toe this line at times because I did start this to build for the South Asian community because I said, “I want you guys to have a line of sight to leaders who look like you.” Right? It's still a nuanced experience. But then, to the point of, “I want to bring others into this conversation,” the labeling makes a difference.
And I say this to say that it's hard. It's hard to be building for your community, but also want people outside the community to engage and understand how to walk that line. And I'm talking about it from a branding perspective, [laughs] let alone from all the other components that go into it. And so I say this to say it's not easy, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
Right? And keeping in mind, especially, the part of being welcoming. And that's why I always tell people and I try to say, “If you're someone that is just interested in learning from leaders, this is for you.” And I try to incorporate just small pieces of language that make it clear that this is really open to anyone, even if it was initially built with this community in mind.
And it's interesting because this is a conversation I also have with a lot of brands I work with. You know, there are groups that are founding food or beauty brands that are inspired by South Asian heritage or Indian beauty rituals from our ancestors. But they're like, the point is that we want this to go mainstream. We want everyone to access this, not just our community, but the way they've built it to stay authentic to our culture and our heritage is very centered around those cultural nuances, r?
And so the average consumer might say, “Oh, that's not for me.” And then they have to reshape their whole messaging. So I say this to say this is a struggle for everyone, right? We want to bring our culture to the forefront. We want to make it accessible to everyone while retaining that authenticity. And it just is not easy to walk that line, right? Because you're trying to build for your community and then trying to build for every community is not an easy task.
And I don't think that's something that non-culturally infused brands really have to think as hard about and it's not something that I think there's a ton of precedent for because it's really having a moment right now, if you think about it, right? Or I would say in the last five to 10 years. And so that I just wanted to highlight that point of, sometimes we feel guilt about that. And I just don’t think it's an easy thing to do.
Patrick Armstrong
No, I totally agree. I think it's honestly extremely difficult because as you evolve that messaging to include a way to approach outside of that community that you're originally targeting or creating for, you're probably going to get backlash from that community who's like, “What are you doing?” or “You're selling out!” or whatever it might be.
And it's like, “Well, no, I just want to be able to take this, what we do for ourselves, and share it with the rest of the world. It's not selling out. It's like, don’t we want to share our culture. Isn't that the point? To share our culture and the things that we know and the things that we do in our lives with other people so they can build empathy with us–
Simi Shah
Exactly.
Patrick Armstrong
–so they can be like, “Oh, that is totally worth it. I love that. I want to do that in my life.” I think that's the point of it, honestly, at the end of the day. But it's not easy. It's a difficult task because you're going to find pushback from all sides when you make that evolution. And luckily there are people like you, Simi, that can help folks go through that process.
Who in the community right now is exciting you, is inspiring you? Actually they don't even have to be in a community, who's inspiring you right now and the work that you're doing or just in the work that you see happening from other people?
Simi Shah
Oh, that's a great question. You know to your point, we recently did our second ever live podcast with Anjula Acharia, who is manager of Priyanka Chopra, legendary investor and entrepreneur, and she's long been an inspiration and it was so amazing to have her. And in addition to that, in this event we brought on a number of small South Asian brands to partner with us for food bag swag, the like.
And it has just been so amazing to see what these brands are building. I mean, and some of them I've actually been following for a number of years and having the opportunity to collaborate with them was so meaningful. But, as I said at the start of this, I come from a very entrepreneurial family and I just have an immense respect for people building something from scratch, trying to take something that is in theory, niche, but as we've been talking about, make it something accessible to all.
And I've just been really inspired by the way these people – I'll give a shout out to some of them. There's Rupi Beer. It's an Indian-inspired beer company. My dad is obviously obsessed with that. My good friend, her name is Hani. She runs a marketing agency called Kahani Digital. I mean, it's so phenomenal to see. Silk + Sonder, Meha Agrawal is trying to build a more intentional brand around journaling and mental health and making that a staple part of our everyday lives and being proactive versus reactive. I mean, it's really inspiring to me. And they really give me a lot of energy and juice around what we're doing in the work of amplifying and elevating South Asian leaders.
I mean, these are the people that are boots on the ground doing the thing.
Patrick Armstrong
And it's amazing where that inspiration can come from, especially when you just have a get together like that and you're able to see or you're able to amplify and uplift those people who are out here doing amazing things and that you would never even, again, if you don't know, you don't know, you probably never even got there doing these things.
Simi Shah
Exactly! Yeah. I mean, if I wasn't in this space, I wouldn't know. And I try to be more intentional about supporting South Asian and broadly AAPI founders. But to your point, we live in an echo chamber. It's really easy for me to talk about that because over the course of building Trailblazers, I've met so many people and become so embedded in this.
And sometimes I think critically, you know, I talk to my Asian American friends outside this world who don't do this stuff, and they're like, “This is crazy.” And I'm like, “Oh, this is like every day for us.”
Patrick Armstrong
That's just a normal Tuesday. [laughs]
Simi Shah
Yeah, It's a friendly reminder that, to your point, we do have an echo chamber and we’ve got to get out of it sometimes.
Patrick Armstrong
Simi it's been an absolute pleasure having this conversation with you and I want to be mindful of your time as we wind down the interview here. Two more questions.
People feel a lot of different ways about heritage months. I've written a lot about it myself and whether you like them, you don't like them where you fall somewhere in the middle. I think it's all okay. I think we all have our own opinions and we're entitled to those. Do you personally celebrate Asian Pacific American Heritage Month? And if you feel comfortable enough sharing, why or why not, would love to hear.
Simi Shah
Yeah, it's a great question. I want to say I do celebrate it. But it's interesting you're framing because what does celebrating mean, right? I think right now I view celebrating as, you know, I have a lot of friends and partners and collaborators who will host events or meaningful conversations or will put out certain content oriented around the month and again, in my little echo chamber myself, I consider that celebrating.
But is it? And I think in terms of my why I think, look, you can pick a bone with everything, right? You can nitpick at everything and I think it is, you know, the history of AAPI Heritage Month is really beautiful. I encourage you guys to look it up if you haven't.
But it wasn't easy to get there, to get a month. And I think that when we have opportunities like this, I'm not saying, you know, like there are criticisms to be made about all sorts of things. And I think we should absolutely vocalize them, but I also think we should take the moment to appreciate and revel in the progress we've made. And I think AAPI Heritage Month is truly one of those symbols. And so I do try and celebrate it.
I think something that I try to be mindful of and this is a conversation we've been broadly having, particularly around Diwali this year is, it's really easy for months like this or certain holidays and celebrations to become commoditized and commercialized and experienced and done at a very surface level. And this Diwali season was phenomenal. I've never seen Diwali celebrated like that in my entire life, across the United States and world. But I also had a moment where I was like, “Do people know what Diwali’s about? Like, do we know the history, you know?
And I think that's the case with everything. I don't think it just applies to our community or these celebrations in particular. But I think it's a reminder that, sometimes you got to go back to your roots and understand why you're doing this thing and what message you're sending, again, broadly to the communities that aren't necessarily yours in the way that you talk about certain things and celebrate certain things.
So I appreciate you asking this question because I feel like it's made me a lot more mindful about how I will continue to celebrate this month going forward. But yeah, I absolutely do celebrate it. And, I'm excited to see where it goes in the future and what it looks like.
Patrick Armstrong
Absolutely. I think you asked the right question to my question, which is what does it mean to celebrate? What does that even actually mean? When I wrote the question, I wasn't even thinking about that, but I'm like, “Oh, I need to think about maybe even the framing of this.” So I appreciate you sharing that. Again, it comes back to like, I love, the root, what's the root of it?
And I think heritage months, in particular, can feel like they feed into this culture of commodification that we live in as a society. And even ourselves, as representatives or as members of those communities, can get caught up in that because it feels like we're trying to reclaim or take back some of it from a narrative sense.
Simi Shah
Absolutely.
Patrick Armstrong
It can be again, it can be tough. But I am interested to see where it goes in the future, as well. I'm excited because I feel like voices are coming out of the woodwork, and are excited to share their stories and finding new ways to do so. And that's really exciting. And I think there's a shift in, maybe the way that we think about these things that's going to be hopefully very beneficial for all of us moving forward.
Last question: How do our listeners support you moving forward?
Simi Shah
Oh, that's very kind. Well, as I said over the course of this podcast, if you're someone interested in learning from leaders that look like you, or don't, but just have phenomenal stories to share about their journeys to success across an array of industries, I encourage you to check out our podcast. It's called South Asian Trailblazers. You can find it on Apple, Spotify, all major podcasting platforms.
We also have an accompanying publication if you prefer to read. And as I said, we love to host events. I personally love bringing our community to life and so encourage you to check out our websites, South Asian Trailblazers dot com and also on socials if you want to stay tuned for all things we have upcoming.
Patrick Armstrong
Absolutely amazing. Simi, I cannot thank you enough for sitting down, for giving me some of your time, for your vulnerability, sharing your story and sharing so much incredible wisdom and advice with not only me but with all of our audience here. And just for saying yes to being part of The APAHM Conversations series. It means a lot to me.
So thank you very much for that. For everybody out there listening, you can find the links to everything that we just talked about here in the show notes, and you can find us at Conversation Pod Piece on Instagram. If you do feel inclined to leave a rating and review on the podcast player that you're listening to, we would greatly appreciate it.
And if you're interested in supporting the show in the future in any way, feel free to hop in my DMs or visit my website. Patrick in the World dot me. Until next time, I am Patrick Armstrong and this has been Conversation Piece. Thanks Simi.
Simi Shah
Thank you so much, Patrick.